Part of Shopping Spree for New Weapons

Wall Street Journal said:The Iraqi government is seeking to buy 36 advanced F-16 fighters from the U.S., say American military officials familiar with the request, a move that could help reduce its reliance on U.S. air power and potentially allow more American forces to withdraw from the country than had been proposed.

WSJ

Good sings, light at the end of the tunnel.

Please leave your overall opinion of the conflict in Iraq and the politicians involved (or not) at the door and don't get my thread locked. Thanks in advance for you cooperation.

mcwhitman said:OMG! I am surpised that you would think this is a good idea.

Okay...remember what happened with the f-14's we sold to Iran. I guess the lesson is don't put our eggs in their volatile basket.

Well, I say it's a good idea for a couple of reasons. After the revolution in Iran in 1979 the Iranians couldn't get any parts or support for their F-14s because they were no longer on friendly terms with the US. They've flown very little if at all since then. For the most part they're corroding hulks. Besides, they didn't get the same Tomcat that we had, they got a "dumbed down" version.
The F-16 itself is quickly becoming an outdated platform. When the F-35 comes online soon, the ol' Viper (F-16) will become obsolete. I think it's great the we'll get the cash from the sale (hopefully at full price) and the future support $s. At least they're not buying planes from the Soviets, er, Russians and it will enable them to take over the duties that out airmen/sailors are responsible for now.

BTW, one, solitary F-22 is capable of taking down 10 Vipers by itself. I don't think the Iraqi F-16s would be much of a threat if they decided to turn against us at some future point. As for technology leaks, everyone has already had a good look at the F-16 in the last 30 years or so, so no worry there.

ahhh, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that giving Iraq weapons would be a mistake. Bribing enemies doesnt work, look at SA for example.

The U.S. military does not plan to retire the falcon (sans galatica geek speak) til 2025. It would be sad that we had to force an end to such a great piece of equipment due to a negligent sale. I love the F-16 airframe and the relative low cost of maintenance. Replacing the engine is a piece of cake! The military wants excuses to buy the f22, but this should not be one of them.

a sale seems good with some bugs inplanted in each of course. that way USA can keep up to date in future on their paths, communications.

mcwhitman said:The U.S. military does not plan to retire the falcon (sans galatica geek speak) til 2025. It would be sad that we had to force an end to such a great piece of equipment due to a negligent sale.

The pilot's name for the F-16 is "Viper", not "Falcon" or "Fighting Falcon" (official name). It was competing against the YF-17 "Cobra" in the LWF competition. The YF-17 "Cobra" itself eventually found a home as the FA-18 "Hornet" and "Super Hornet". The F-16 wiki is wrong, it has little to do with Battlestar Galactica. The original LWF competition was years before the original series.

YF-16 and YF-17 protypes flying formation.
True Story of F-16 naming.

I love the F-16 airframe and the relative low cost of maintenance. Replacing the engine is a piece of cake! The military wants excuses to buy the f22, but this should not be one of them.

Well, both "5th Generation" fighters (F-22 and F-35) are designed to be "modular" and much easier to work on. I read somewhere that most maintenence on an F-22 can be done with six common hand tools. Also, it has substantially fewer moving parts than the F-15, the frame it's designed to replace. I really don't think the F-16 has anything to do with F-22 program procurement, although I do support a further F-22 buy. The F-35 is the "monster" that will hasten the F-16's demise, but that's only because it brings much more to the table. Against the wishes of USAF, Congress actually pushed ahead with the second engine for F-35, the F136 engine. The F135 and F136 engines are interchangeable and create competion among the engine OEMs, so the F-35 program isn't beholden to only one manufacturer and will thus be cheaper in the long run. Also, it will be the first fighter used by the USAF, USMC and USN since the F-4 and commonality will make it cheaper.
Don't get me wrong, the F-16 will always be a favorite of mine, but time and technology march on.

F-16 and F-35 flying formation.

MaxMojo said:For the various reason previously stated it's probably not a bad idea. But we should set some performance mile markers. They need to enlist more Sunnis and Kurds in the government & army and they need to prove they can all just get along. They've come a long way, but we need a bit more proof of performance before we dole out the toys.

I'll agree to that one. We need to make sure they can play nice before getting the big toys.

PsychoFan said:Better they buy fighter jets from the U.S. than MIGs from Russia

Word. We'd lose the sale (and influence) and the latest generation of MiGs and Sukhois from Russia are better than the F-16, the Russians just can't afford to build them for themselves.

It is good for us financially. But it reflects poorly on the Iraqi's judgment. Whenever there is an air defense need, they could just easily get it from the US bases or carriers or maybe even Israel.

Battleshipnote said:ahhh, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that giving Iraq weapons would be a mistake. Bribing enemies doesnt work,Iraq is our enemy? Selling something is a bribe?

The addition of another democracy in the ME that can protect itself from hegemony is a good thing. That takes military equipment.Battleshipnote said:...look at SA for example.Would you prefer that KSA had aligned with the USSR instead of the USA? KSA has increased their oil production this year - within a few months, their total output will have reached 50% more than it was a year ago. They're doing this for us.

nm

A few decades from now, this deal will probably be as famous as Don Rumsfeld shaking hands with Saddam.